Coaching Conversations in 2025

Reverse Engineered Coaching: A New Approach to Leadership Development

Tim Hagen

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Speaker 1:

Welcome to Reverse Engineered Coaching, part 2. I think about coaching and I'm looking at it probably for the first time in years really differently. You know, I was talking to a good friend of mine, a great sales expert nationwide, mike Carroll from Intelligent Conversations, and I was telling him of this discovery. And we call them coaching badges, and a badge is where you complete a conversation. Okay, and I think about what we do from a linear standpoint. You know, hopefully we train people on a good coaching methodology, we practice that conversation and then we send them out in the field and we kind of wonder, are they coaching? And many companies will say things like well, we really want to know, or we wanted someone to sit there and observe. I think we have to be very careful that we're getting authentic conversations. I'll be candid. I have no problem role playing in front of a group. I've been doing this 32 years If someone wants to observe me. Not uncomfortable, yet I will tell you. I will tell you it does change the dynamic and I once had someone oh, can I just sit in and see you, coach? I said sure, and he interjected and I looked at him and I kicked him out of the room Because it wasn't fair to the person that I was coaching. We weren't there for his benefit, we were there for the person being coached's benefit, and so it is a dynamic shift. So my friend Mike and I were exchanging some messages about this methodology, about reverse engineered coaching, detailing what do we want to know. I want to share something with you.

Speaker 1:

I ended up chatting with a friend over the weekend who's in sales and I said you know, when you go out and you have things that you want to know about your prospects or your customers, what specifically do you need to know in terms of the information you need to collect? I want to literally read this to you. This is exactly what he said. I wrote it down. We were on a Zoom call and he said well, what I try to do when I meet with prospects is let them know that they can trust me. And I'm like, oh my gosh, he's going out there with a personal, very linear agenda. I said, no, no, no, no. What's the information you want to know? He said well, it depends, it doesn't everybody. I said, wow, this is really interesting, he goes well. What do you want to know? I said I want to know. Number one do you have a coaching program? Number two how are you measuring it? Number three how often are you practicing? Number four do you have ratings of your leaders who are coaching? And he looked at me and he said, wow, that's really interesting. I've never thought of it this way, which I was astonished.

Speaker 1:

Now, I've always said sales and coaching parallel each other. They do, they run side by side with each other. I really believe that. But isn't that interesting? Isn't that interesting?

Speaker 1:

So our objective when we're coaching someone for career development, isn't our objective to find out what do you want to do with your career?

Speaker 1:

And, in terms of a motivation conversation, don't we want to find out what specifically motivates them and what are the milestones they see they need to achieve to do that? If we're coaching someone to handle, let's say, as Mike and I were talking about sales objections, don't we want to know what sales objections you got and what the next steps are and how you handled them and what's your comfort level with those objections and what do you perceive the buyer, the prospect's reaction to your reaction on those objections to be? What I think we have to do is itemize what do we want to know and then prompt people to take time to develop questions to go get that information. Reverse engineered coaching is really reversing things, saying you know what? Here's the information we need to know. Let's craft some really good coaching questions to get there. What we've been doing is saying here are some great coaching questions, go apply them. And we kind of wonder if it's working. Welcome to reverse engineered coaching. Part two.